Old and The...Old. EDIT
DOMA: Yet Another Gimmick
By making another push for the “Defense of Marriage Act”, Bush tries to distract the country yet again from his utter failure of foreign and domestic policies. It’s like he’s sidling up to the evangelical right saying “Hey, little girl. I got some candy back in my van.”
Question is, will they fall for it?
I’ve discussed gay marriage before here on this blog: No one has ever been able to explain to me how a gay couple marrying affects the marriage of the straight couple down the street (unless their marriage has some pretty serious problems to begin with) nor how the institution of marriage itself is somehow “damaged” by gay people marrying.
Gay marriage doesn’t damage the institution of marriage. Las Vegas does.
As for the “marriage is for the procreation of children” argument, Archren dealt with that in her blog entry when she pointed out that by that reasoning, straight couples with fertility issues should have to get divorced since they cannot fulfill the proposed main purpose of marriage. Besides if you are together just to breed, how lame is your relationship? A long time ago, I was listening to a Christian speaker on the institution of marriage and she pointed that “in the Bible it states “..and the two shall become one”. Not “..the two shall become three or four or five.” The main purpose of marriage is Love. Children are a happy extension of that love into the future but not it’s main purpose.
Then there is the “If we allow gay marriage, then polygamy will be next!” No, that’s something else entirely since gay marriage still only involves two people. The legal ramification of allowing spousal rights to multiple partners is completely different than replacing “Jane” with “Jim”. Plus the terrible effects institutionalized polygamy on women in certain “families” is well documented while the evidence of the harm of homosexual monogamy…is there any?
Anyway, as you can tell I find the entire DOMA thing ridiculous with not one logical argument to support it. If Bush truly wanted to "strengthen American families, he would go after dead-beat parents. He is just bringing this up again in order to make the evangelical Christians distracted and happy for the November elections. Trying to get them to choose “blow-jobs over job-jobs”, as Mahr put it, once again.
Will they forget how the administration failed them in the New Orleans, the falling value of a dollar, the spiraling-out-of-control-defict, the “guest worker program” and millions of $$ spent on that useless fence, the rising energy costs, the mistake of Iraq and mistakes in Iraq, the executive order that allowed contractors rebuilding the Gulf Coast to pay people who had lost their homes and jobs less than a living wage, the attacks on Constitutional rights, lack of attention paid to improving education in this country, the failure to stop jobs from flowing off shore, inflation rising out of balance with salaries, the raising of taxes on college saving plans, attacks on veterans benefits, the association with multiple criminal indictments, and so on and so forth and such, in order to stop gay people from getting married?
We’re about to find out.
Mariners of the Ancient World.
The development of maritime trade is a rather esoteric subject, but if one ever takes an interest Lionel Casson's The Ancient Mariners is a very readable account of an aspect of history that is taken for granted in most history texts: maritime trade. One reads in the school books about this ancient civilizations warring with that ancient civilization, or how that culture flowed from this group of people to that one, but rarely do those books address the mechanism of how that happened. Two of the most influential civilizations in the early Mediterranean were sea faring people: The Minoans, who influenced the culture that later took them over and became the “Geeks” of Homeric legend: the Myceneans, and the Phoenicians of the Levant, who not only brought British tin to the bronze age Mediterranean, but introduced writing to the western world.
The Phoenicians are a very interesting people when placed next to other pre-Roman cultures. If the ancestors of Yankee traders could be traced that far, they would go back to the Phoenicians, or Canaanites as they were called in the Bible. Colonization was very common in the ancient world. Greek city states for example spawned child colonies by the dozen into the Black Sea and elsewhere and they in their turn created their own “grandchild” colonies, but no one created a colonization program so solely and openly devoted to commerce as the Phoenicians did. They didn’t care about land or political/philosophical differences, they didn’t even seem interested in grabbing resources, they just wanted a monopoly on all trade in the Mediterranean. From 1,200 to 800 BC they dominated ocean trade through small colonies and outposts scattered not only all over the Mediterranean, but on the coasts of Africa and what is now Portugal. They also had no qualms renting themselves out to one side or the other for naval battles. Anything so long as the money was good.
The example the book related of Phoenician’s dry practicality involved a great hero who did not stop an enemy army or save a town, but ran his ship aground to prevent other traders from ascertaining his source of supply. For this his deeds were recorded and he was given, not a statue, but the replacement cost of his ship.
My father always theorized that the Legend of Atlantis sprang from Phoenicians trying to keep other sea farers from trying to discover the British Isles or their middle men to the British isles, which was the source of the tin for making bronze, the hottest technology of the time.
“Yeah, you go out the straight there…and keep going. Big island, huge harbor, can’t miss it.” *snicker*
Another way the book is good is that it shows how historians and archeologists suss facts out of legends with small bits of corroborating evidence from a wide variety of sources: geology, archaeology, meteorology, historical accounts of other peoples, inventories and other records, anything they can lay their hands on they use to reconstruct the past. The example of the detective work used to ascertain that Jason and the Argonaut's great voyage was probably into the Black Sea is fascinating.
For me anyway.
Anyway, Casson does a great job weaving legend and humanity together to help the reader identify with the ages of history being discussed. Definitely keep your eye out for the comedy of errors of an ancient Egyptian priest sent to Lebanon to buy cedar wood. (Egypt had no lumber worthy trees.) So as dry as the subject matter may sound it’s actually an enjoyable read.
Speaking of Nat’l Geographic
Give this test a whirl and see how your geo-knowledge is.
I got 18 out of twenty.
EDIT
Duma
I just finished watching this and thought it was quietly brilliant. What Disney would turn into a sappy melodramatic “boy and his cheetah story” became an understated yet poignant boys journey into manhood. I can honestly there was only a couple moments my suspension of disbelief was stretched a tad, but it quickly settled into the organic flow of the story. Very well done, I recommend it for everyone.
And the cheetah shots are incredible. Simply stunning creatures and truly unique. Cheetahs are big cats, but unlike any other. Learn more about this remarkable species here and here is the website for the Cheetah conservation fund, which is trying to save the cheetah in it's natural habitat. And here is a website I found while poking around that has wav files of different big cat noises, including the cheetah.
By making another push for the “Defense of Marriage Act”, Bush tries to distract the country yet again from his utter failure of foreign and domestic policies. It’s like he’s sidling up to the evangelical right saying “Hey, little girl. I got some candy back in my van.”
Question is, will they fall for it?
I’ve discussed gay marriage before here on this blog: No one has ever been able to explain to me how a gay couple marrying affects the marriage of the straight couple down the street (unless their marriage has some pretty serious problems to begin with) nor how the institution of marriage itself is somehow “damaged” by gay people marrying.
Gay marriage doesn’t damage the institution of marriage. Las Vegas does.
As for the “marriage is for the procreation of children” argument, Archren dealt with that in her blog entry when she pointed out that by that reasoning, straight couples with fertility issues should have to get divorced since they cannot fulfill the proposed main purpose of marriage. Besides if you are together just to breed, how lame is your relationship? A long time ago, I was listening to a Christian speaker on the institution of marriage and she pointed that “in the Bible it states “..and the two shall become one”. Not “..the two shall become three or four or five.” The main purpose of marriage is Love. Children are a happy extension of that love into the future but not it’s main purpose.
Then there is the “If we allow gay marriage, then polygamy will be next!” No, that’s something else entirely since gay marriage still only involves two people. The legal ramification of allowing spousal rights to multiple partners is completely different than replacing “Jane” with “Jim”. Plus the terrible effects institutionalized polygamy on women in certain “families” is well documented while the evidence of the harm of homosexual monogamy…is there any?
Anyway, as you can tell I find the entire DOMA thing ridiculous with not one logical argument to support it. If Bush truly wanted to "strengthen American families, he would go after dead-beat parents. He is just bringing this up again in order to make the evangelical Christians distracted and happy for the November elections. Trying to get them to choose “blow-jobs over job-jobs”, as Mahr put it, once again.
Will they forget how the administration failed them in the New Orleans, the falling value of a dollar, the spiraling-out-of-control-defict, the “guest worker program” and millions of $$ spent on that useless fence, the rising energy costs, the mistake of Iraq and mistakes in Iraq, the executive order that allowed contractors rebuilding the Gulf Coast to pay people who had lost their homes and jobs less than a living wage, the attacks on Constitutional rights, lack of attention paid to improving education in this country, the failure to stop jobs from flowing off shore, inflation rising out of balance with salaries, the raising of taxes on college saving plans, attacks on veterans benefits, the association with multiple criminal indictments, and so on and so forth and such, in order to stop gay people from getting married?
We’re about to find out.
Mariners of the Ancient World.
The development of maritime trade is a rather esoteric subject, but if one ever takes an interest Lionel Casson's The Ancient Mariners is a very readable account of an aspect of history that is taken for granted in most history texts: maritime trade. One reads in the school books about this ancient civilizations warring with that ancient civilization, or how that culture flowed from this group of people to that one, but rarely do those books address the mechanism of how that happened. Two of the most influential civilizations in the early Mediterranean were sea faring people: The Minoans, who influenced the culture that later took them over and became the “Geeks” of Homeric legend: the Myceneans, and the Phoenicians of the Levant, who not only brought British tin to the bronze age Mediterranean, but introduced writing to the western world.
The Phoenicians are a very interesting people when placed next to other pre-Roman cultures. If the ancestors of Yankee traders could be traced that far, they would go back to the Phoenicians, or Canaanites as they were called in the Bible. Colonization was very common in the ancient world. Greek city states for example spawned child colonies by the dozen into the Black Sea and elsewhere and they in their turn created their own “grandchild” colonies, but no one created a colonization program so solely and openly devoted to commerce as the Phoenicians did. They didn’t care about land or political/philosophical differences, they didn’t even seem interested in grabbing resources, they just wanted a monopoly on all trade in the Mediterranean. From 1,200 to 800 BC they dominated ocean trade through small colonies and outposts scattered not only all over the Mediterranean, but on the coasts of Africa and what is now Portugal. They also had no qualms renting themselves out to one side or the other for naval battles. Anything so long as the money was good.
The example the book related of Phoenician’s dry practicality involved a great hero who did not stop an enemy army or save a town, but ran his ship aground to prevent other traders from ascertaining his source of supply. For this his deeds were recorded and he was given, not a statue, but the replacement cost of his ship.
My father always theorized that the Legend of Atlantis sprang from Phoenicians trying to keep other sea farers from trying to discover the British Isles or their middle men to the British isles, which was the source of the tin for making bronze, the hottest technology of the time.
“Yeah, you go out the straight there…and keep going. Big island, huge harbor, can’t miss it.” *snicker*
Another way the book is good is that it shows how historians and archeologists suss facts out of legends with small bits of corroborating evidence from a wide variety of sources: geology, archaeology, meteorology, historical accounts of other peoples, inventories and other records, anything they can lay their hands on they use to reconstruct the past. The example of the detective work used to ascertain that Jason and the Argonaut's great voyage was probably into the Black Sea is fascinating.
For me anyway.
Anyway, Casson does a great job weaving legend and humanity together to help the reader identify with the ages of history being discussed. Definitely keep your eye out for the comedy of errors of an ancient Egyptian priest sent to Lebanon to buy cedar wood. (Egypt had no lumber worthy trees.) So as dry as the subject matter may sound it’s actually an enjoyable read.
Speaking of Nat’l Geographic
Give this test a whirl and see how your geo-knowledge is.
I got 18 out of twenty.
EDIT
Duma
I just finished watching this and thought it was quietly brilliant. What Disney would turn into a sappy melodramatic “boy and his cheetah story” became an understated yet poignant boys journey into manhood. I can honestly there was only a couple moments my suspension of disbelief was stretched a tad, but it quickly settled into the organic flow of the story. Very well done, I recommend it for everyone.
And the cheetah shots are incredible. Simply stunning creatures and truly unique. Cheetahs are big cats, but unlike any other. Learn more about this remarkable species here and here is the website for the Cheetah conservation fund, which is trying to save the cheetah in it's natural habitat. And here is a website I found while poking around that has wav files of different big cat noises, including the cheetah.
posted by KiplingKat | 7:01 PM
21 Comments:
for the record, t is a useless biznatch. it must be rough, when everything is so obviously all about you.
the neocons are seeking to distract the masses again. apparently no one has any memory at all except for us.
i'm reading about vikings. they freaking fascinate me.
my gay friend got married today. ha!
Tres’ cool! Congrats to your pal and his/her (?) S.O. May it be a long and happy hitch!
Vikings are very neat. A lot more to them than hairy barbarians. Surprisingly astute rulers where they colonized. My favorite is when they decided they wanted in on the silk road, they didn’t bother sailing all the way into the Mediterranean, they just went straight through Russia. Constantiople gave them a wad of cash and a princess to get them to go away.
The Normans of William the Bastard fame were also Norse. Their cultural influence reaches a lot further than people realize. What about them in particular fascinates you?
T, well I’m not t-d off at her some much as Lianne and Cynd: Two hyenas who saw opening. I seem to remember those two being at the fore front of the last witch hunt (no pun intended). Truth is, I’m still kind of pissed off about the whole thing, more so because I’m thinking maybe I should have said anything…
And then Jade, was he yelling at me or not? I can’t tell.
Re: Neocons, well it worked before, why not try it again now? It’s their stupid arrogance that amazes me. If you haven’t read it yet, there a great book by Barbara “The Guns of August” Tuchman called “The March of Folly” which cover monumental stupidity in History, such as the British denying American colonist representation and determinedly antagonizing them, the open hedonism of renaissance popes which led to the Reformation and Vietnam. Were she alive today, she would have to do another revision.
To quote her: “A phenomenon noticeable throughout history regardless of place or period is the pursuit of governments of policies to their own interests. Mankind, it seems, makes a poorer performance of government than of almost any human activity. In this sphere, wisdom, which may be defended as the exercise of judgment acting on experience, common sense and available information, is less operative and more frustrated than it should be. Why does holders of high office so often contrary to the way reason points and enlightened self-interest suggest? Why does intelligent mental process seem so often not to function?"
Sorry, "maybe I shouldn't have said anything."
Listen, what we both said in the beginning was kindly meant to him, and an act of prevention for the rest of the comment posse. The fact that it then blew up in our faces means a) hey, at least we spared that nutty kid, and b) those wenches have nothing else to do but wait.
I can't understand or explain the motivation behind it, much though i've tried, but usually the actions speak loudly enough. i have a feeling there's a little gang of them from some other board or site that have found pleasure in the "us vs. them" mentality (or the "us vs. kip" mentality, since once again, you've been selected) and just love the idea of wiping their idiocy off on yet another public forum, so to speak. i don't know how i've managed to avoid it thus far (nor do i need the aggravation of jinxing it) when i'm sure i've said more personal, off-topic crap than anyone...except maybe adam. they're just bitches, looking for a chick-fight to impress the boys with. it's the same communal brain at work.
if jade wants to yell at you, or me, for any of that, he can go screw. i'm sick of the ambiguity. if he wants us off, say so. singling out certain phrases, or in my case directly confronting some things i've said, just lead others to believe he WANTS us off, but then the gist of what he says seems to encourage us to comment more. unless he gets paid by the word, wtf?
i've written letters to him i later rethought and didn't bother sending, because honestly, who cares? if his bread and butter is these brainless wenches and their fixation on jr's red-or-black-clad ass, then he's gotta keep them happy. luckily for us, we don't.
let that be a cautionary lesson in making a living in the cult of personality. i'd rather stay poor.
If you check Jade's comment you will another quarter of idiocy is heard from. Funny how we haven't heard from these wenches in so long and suddenly they all have to have their say.
Poor Adam, the kid is probably completely confused and blames himself.
Of course after my response, Jade probably will shut the comments down. Fuck.
Of course, was it two weeks ago Mr. "Freedom of Speech" told Adam not to post about his dream "Lingeree Football League" anymore?
I hate the ambiguity too. A LOT. I had a brief e-mail exchange with him in which I joked about him being sick of us and he joked back he never said he wasn't...but he never got specific as in "Hey, could you dail it back a few notches?" or "I wish you would stay more on topic" or otherwise. Just vague statement that made one uneasy, but never cleared the air. I'm not a subtle person: you got a problem with me, tell me.
But I sympathize with Jade's position, I do. Not only does he have to keep the wenches happy, he can't appear being too controversial or the press will get a a hold of "Dale Jr.'s publicist said...." fill in whatever stupid controversy you want here.
That's why I didn't expect and have no problem with him *not* stepping in during the first witch hunt. Because they made a personal attack into a controversial issue (jeezus, that was weak), his hands were tied. Touching me at that point would have been professional poison because it would go all over the net that he defended "a racist" within 24 hours. He would have been totally screwed because even if it wasn't true, Dale Jr. can't be associated with even the hint of that word.
The hilarious thing is I still have their comments up here way back in the posts. They could call me a "n-lover" and yet attack me for being "racist" for observing that there seems to be a cultural bent of some of the latino cultures to cars when the entire "Busch Race in Mexico" debate started raging.
(Something which many of my friends and co-workers who happened to be latino confirmed at the time: "Yeah it's a stereotype, but it also kinda true". I'd say the fact that they've sold out the Busch race down there twice and they can't sell one out here in the U.S. kinda also give creadence to that observation. But I guess if I observed that europeans have a cultural bent toward football/soccer and Mainiacs have a cultural tendency eat seafood and baked beans, that would make me "racist" as well.)
Of course, we both know what it was really about. The fact that we were right about the Bush adminstration and they were wrong has probably only inflamed thier little obsessed asses further. Of, course they can't mess with Jade because if they do then they might never get to meet Joonyer, so they take it out on me, the convient target. Of course, only when it looks like I'm down already.
Fucking cowards.
*sigh*
O.k. enough with the venting. Thanks for "listening" to all that. I guess I hadn't left it as behind as I thought. There a lot of stuff I didn't say then I guess I just needed to vent it. Maybe I am no better than them.
Anyway, I'm glad you and D2 and JYD and the rest have been spared this, but while their phycotic tendencies account for some of it, it's also probably because you all are more diplomatic than I ...as evidenced by my lastest posts: subtle as a two x four.
Sorry, I guess it's all about me too. *chuckle* ;)
yeah, they're coming out of the woodwork. let them rant, the more they spew, the worse they look.
vikings have always fascinated me, ever since i was a kid. i really have no idea why. one of those things... and yet the more i learn about them, the more torn i am. i don't *like* their thieving, raping, burning, pirating ways...and yet, do i like that they were honest, forthright, and pretty damn square about it all? yeah, you know, maybe i do. maybe i just like that they didn't hide it, spin it, convince their victims that "paradise awaits" if they help do themselves in, and waste time with all that hypocritical nonsense. they just did what they did because they needed the money, the power over waterways, the power over trade routes, and "hey! i like your island! got anything to sell 'round here?"...and never made it more than that. it's plenty, but whatever, at least they never convinced women to punish themselves for their own nature, just to list one *small* example.
or maybe i just think they're hot. i once fell in love with an actor who actually played thor (we met at a "saint lucia" procession, he was in a tux and i was in a ballgown...at the waldorf astoria, no less! i thought i would pass out...and then wake up.) so clearly i'm an idiot who's not thinking with the "upstairs" command center.
i'm hesitant to say this next, because i think you've been picked on enough, AND because i'm afraid you'll go too far in the opposite extreme or something to tack center; but i do want to say one thing on this recurring kip-bashing thing we have here. everything was cool, until you responded to cyn's letter by talking about adam like he wouldn't read it...like he "wasn't there". that made that other kid uncomfortable, which dragged the little sniveling father into it (dude, tell your kid that someday, he's going to have to adjust to society, not society to HIM, and that's a lesson that's hard for everyone regardless of if they have autism or a splinter...childhood and adolescence are HARD.) anyway, then everyone chimed in with this whole pro or con stance, when in reality, there was no point to argue against. it was just a lot of noise.
then those bizanatchez saw their opening. cynthia went a little over the line, but s'cool, because she was very encouraging after that, but here's where it started getting weird: i for one don't think adam should comment, simply because now we know his parents don't want him to. we can clearly see the boy can't NOT be too autobiographical, but when you and i get on a rant, for instance, place names and surnames are still left out. he doesn't, and he's putting himself and his family at risk for all sorts of opportunistic side nonsense. he should be encouraged to grow, absolutely; but unless there's a big change at the vogel residence, and some sort of parental editing, he should not be encouraged to post.
and when did it become "post, adam, post" anyway? i'm sorry to say it, but the kid still creeps me out. it's not because he has autism, i've worked with autistic children and adults before. i was an occupational therapist in college (mostly i went on vacay with rich people to work with their kids far from home. apparently poor kids don't get autism...they're just "stupid" and ignored ). it's because he's in that sticky, desperate, over-emotional, stage - like we were all in at around 10 or 11 - but with adult strength behind it. (20 year old male strength behind it...which is it's own cross to bear, apparently) the kid needs to catch up to other kids so he can hopefully get laid before he freaking hurts himself, if you catch my not-at-all-disguised drift. right now, as it is, he's just a little too intense with the longing and the hopefulness and the lingerie and the "love mee!'s". and yeah, it was getting out of hand before, and it will again.
jade's blog is many things; some good and some bad. but the forum for THAT, it is not.
but now, once again, we've shined too bright a light on it, so any chance of him handling it is gone. not that adam let that stop him before, but if jade were to suddenly grow a backbone and tell him to stifle it, he'd look like an asshole to people who'd have never noticed or cared before. then we're back to that "there's a sandwhich named after you...and my church will see to it that you're fired" bullshit. (who knew the methodist racing leeches or what-the-fuck-ever was becoming the Scientology of the East Coast? Blow me. you're where pit lizards go to rationalize, fatheads. how much do these assholes get paid for their "ministry" anyway?) enough of that though, i've just got a bone to pick with those people, so it's best to stay off that subject.
end result, we've defended jade when those scary bitches got out of hand before, but he won't be clear about how much abuse on his space he's willing to allow us (well, mostly you) to take. whatever his reasoning, i don't know or care. i just find it funny that a guy with such strong political opinions (who is MOST DECIDEDLY not a democrat!) is fine with so much ambiguity everywhere else. but, you know, freedom of speech when you're bleating invectives...not when you're wrong on some incredibly minor point.
man, it is some shock he's single.
your latest posts are going to attract some heat; next time, do what you can with sarcasm and don't give them a lick of ammo. humilty is an awesome aspect in a friend, one of the best in fact, but will only get you in trouble with enemies. "pearls before swine" and all that, you know. when people at work say something along the lines of "well we can't all be perrffect...vicky" i simply agree that that is a real gahdammed shame. i'm never going to endear myself by pointing out my many flaws to these fuckers, and certainly not at that moment, so i simply agree.
they hate it! ha!
so don't sweat it. they all suck.
Ah, so the meterosexual lover has the secret yearning for barbarians? ;)
The role of women in Norse society probably was very strong next to her Christian sisters. Because the guys were gone 4 to 6 months out of the year, women had to handle everything at home, running the farm, trading and so on. Unlike their Christian brothers, who still treated the women who managed their estates while they rode of to play at Crusade like chattel, Norse men valued the women in their society. P
Plus they had Freya (Later Frjya/Frigg) to look up to, who seems to have shared the “Love/War” thing with Innanna/Ishtar. Odd how those two things get mixed up in so many cultures.
There were female leaders in the early Christian church too. While Judaism does have female oppressive features, I think the real problem arose when Christianity passed through Greeks (“Keep yer women ignorant and locked up and don’t even allow them to come to dinner if you have guests. Then run out to spent time with your hetairai or little boys.”) The Greeks are truly remarkable for the contributions to western culture, but they were really screwed up in that regard
Re: Jade’s blog. No, I understand what you are saying. I figured that where things started to unravel. Sometimes I don’t know when to shut up. I did address Adam directly in that same post, so I didn’t completely act like he wasn’t there. But…well it’s all just a frickin’ mess.
I admit there are moments where Adam is creepy, and basically he has announced his full name, where he goes to school and where he lives and the nearest movie theatre. All that and your point about his parents are all very valid reasons for him not to be posting. I just didn’t want to be completely discouraging. I mean, “Go away until your parents let you come back?” How do you say that to someone? As for my latest post, I didn’t want him to run crying from Jades blog just because he felt like he had been the cause of this huge meltdown when in fact people are hiding behind him to take their shots.
Not sure what you are saying about admitting my flaws though?
BTW-I never said thank you for stepping in on that first thread and playing peacemaker. That was much appreciated. Thanks.
Re: "Admitting Flaws" okay, personally i don't think you did anything wrong, so whatever. But when you seem to be apologetic or start over-explaining yourself, in short letting people like Cynd or T or Cassidy put you on the spot, then you open the door for more of their ilk. They do it, too, but while they're "explaining" they're also on the offensive, which T demonstrates perfectly with her "apparently i'm not allowed" bullshit. (and i'm so pleased to hear she's reproduced) in a war of words, passive aggression is a filthy and effective weapon.
don't bother responding to their version of your words everytime, a simple "is that what i wrote? cause that's not what it looks like on my screen" will suffice. if you really wanna, a nice "do you have trouble with reading comprehension, or are you just antagonistic to pass the time" kinda stuff is a nice little dig that won't do much more than make them look stupid and me laugh. once they have looked up "antagonistic" perhaps everyone else will have moved on. but it won't open you up to more attacks like responding in kind will.
re: "peacemaker" Ha! not a role i'm known for. i'll do what i can, though.
And you did it well. Pulled the plug at just the right time before things got out of hand on our side. *applause*
That was fun and really nice to see. Not Cassidy per se, but the community not tolerating such invective.
Honestly, I do think we can police ourselves. I belonged to a SciFi board for years that had no moderator. We had an unofficial "Troll Patrol", some of our wittier members that drove off the Cassidy's that would come and spread their droppings around and it actually worked out pretty well. (One of them actually saved some of the more colorful exchanges and posted a "Top 100" list after a couple years. Oh, the things they did with "dolphinlover" those beautiful sick bastards.) Everyone there was adults, even the kids, like with Jade's blog) and if a debate got out of hand, usually someone could reign the worked up party in. One of the kids, jeezus this kid was 16, lived in Minnesota, never met him but nice guy. He knew exactly what completely common sense observation make that would completely deflate me as I was heading into a full blown screaming mimi. It was amazing to behold. (I decided whatever guy I end up will have to have that talent. My sister could do that too and they are both Virgos....maybe I should start looking at earth signs...)
Anyway, it worked out for those guys, I can't see why it wouldn't work out for us too as long as the core group (and not just the ones that all agree with each other) are respectful of each other.
Your advice is very good. I do have a tendancy to get on the defensive and talk to much instead of leaving them with nothing. My first instinct is always to try to explain myself and with some people, that's just an opening.
Anyway, application process for the semester at sea has begun. Transcripts and recomendation letters are flowing in and the admission essays have been submitted. They're going to set up an "Alumni Interview" next.
Hope your interview goes well!
I was just thinking, How would you feel about creating an ez-board for the little knot over on Jade's blog? You, me, JYD, D2, Dollene, etc. Yesterday was cool, but we have kind of turned his comments section into our personal playground and since he refuses to exert any kind of control except to snipe at people...Maybe we should try our own spot.
not sure what that means, but let me know. Did it start up again, or did he decide to ineffectually and belatedly take a swipe at everyone who participated? I'm getting real sick of the attitude. I don't fight with people for fun, I was trying to neutralize with bad humor. Instead of a "thank you for not being an asshole" i feel like now it's all of us looking bad. I've got other hobbies, honestly. i don't need to look guilty by association. (or attract the wrath of psychos)
The latter. The ineffectual one.
Honestly, the guy is clueless abount how to handle an internet community. It seems with the NASCAR internet fansbase either you have tryants exterting abosolute power (The Pit Stop) or you have Lord of the Flies (Jade's blog and the the TEC/DaleJr.net).
Hey, you think I like having people tell me to shoot myself in the head? I enjoy a good political debate with intelligent people, not this BS. But since Jade won't do anything what the hell are we supposed to do? "Ignoring them" doesn't work since the last time I tried that they followed me back here and I ended up having to shut my comments section down.
Anyway, what I am proposing is that I can create a message baord for those of us from Jade's Blog to post whatever. Politics, racing, updates on the FYOTLWM for JYD, so on. Anything. We can have discussions and not worry about torquing anyone off. We can lock down the membership roster so we don't have to deal with psycotic Bushbots with no life, only let those in we know and trust.
Whaddya think?
It's elitist, but at the same time maybe more considerate. I'm sure others don't care to know the details of my day, but then i sift thru their stuff with nary a raise in blood pressure, too, so i just didn't think anyone would notice or care. if they really are, then maybe we could communicate some other way. if it's just a few bad apples, well, then we are kind of shutting out people who may be new or shy or just didnt care until it hit on *their* topic. that kinda defeats the purpose of the whole 'net experience, which for me was to mix with people i wouldn't normally. i figured, since we agree on one very (when you get down to it) weird sport (the machismo, the chance of death...the lizards) maybe we'd all find some other common ground, too.
like i said before, i now look forward to cynthia and dollene commenting, and i never thought that would happen in the beginning, when it was all political. even T managed to endear herself to me yesterday, although now she's back to "you don't mean me, right?" but at least today i can laugh at that. denise (first edition) changed my opinion, too.
i don't hold grudges well. it's one of the perks of being shallow. (and having an explosive temper that tends to clear the air, even if i don't always say what i'm thinking. just getting that mad over anything makes me question my sanity, which is always a good start for priority-appraisal)
but if the others are similarly inclined, i'll certainly take part. i don't know enough about it to know how we'd cull a smart one away from the herd, for instance, without the herd just following, but i'll do as commanded. :) moo.
i can't believe he called it a pissing contest. he of all people should know what that really looks like, given his profession. but it had all the earmarks of a schoolyard slam, that's for sure.
i just wonder, for all the "free speech" talk, are we really only welcome to say "thanks jade, you're the best!" without fear of reprisal, or are we welcome to use the comments as a platform for further discussion...wherever it may go? what he said the other day was pro-discussion, but he lets the lowest common denominator do the actual enforcing.
i was proud of meegan, giving him what for. shame he threw the baby out with the bathwater. now we're back to square 1.
oooh, the 'swipe' is down now. what gives? tantrum over, or did he get too many "explanatory" emails about who's more to blame? man, i'm just going to keep mum. i wish i'd copied yesterday's blitz somewhere, for the next time a troublemaker pops up. maybe i'd just mail the copy to him. heehee.
nah, i always think of that stuff, but never do it. oh well.
nope, i was wrong...the swipe is still there. but since i mentioned ann coulter, i'm going to take that as super-top-secret code that he actually agrees with me.
shut up with your reality, kip! i'll think what i want! ah'm an amuriken!
Well, sadly Mainiacs are rather famous for the grudges they hold. We’re not a vengeful people, ain’t worth the trouble, but we don’t forget either.
Not the trait of a truly good person, but there it is.
Well, I do agree with your points about it defeating the net experience. I mean, geez, this little clatch of people found each other by sticking their necks out I a public forum…it’d be kinda of sad to withdraw them now.
But then it is Jade’s comment section, not a message board.
Granted, the only complaints I’ve heard are from the same hypocrites that were saying a year or so ago that Jade was “poisoning Jr.’s mind” because he was anti-Bush administration that are now saying how “Jade’s worked so hard to make a great blog and a few people (meaning non-topic posting us) are ruining it…” I wonder how do they keep track of who they hate this week and love the next? Do they flip a coin?
Well, I’ll see if I can sound out some other folks on it, think about how we can be open yet keep the rabid badgers from following the herd in. ezboard is an online program that’s a very simple way to set up on online community, I could do that part. We would then decide how we want it run from there. We don’t have to close it off forever. I think we can leave it viewable to people and then let those in that are interested and kick them out again if they prove to be “shaggy dogs”.
Ooo, Roman Coliseum time. Thumbs up, thumbs down.
But at this point it’s just a suggestion to consider. I’ll see if I can get JYD and D2 to come on here and tell us what they think, they should have the link already. I’ll see how to pass it off to Dollene, Cyn and any other you would recommend. T? Meegan? Denise1.0?
“amuriken!” Brilliant! I think I’m going to use that for all the idiots that belive that the government spying on U.S. citizens is patriotic or that the founder fathers designed the U.S. to be a "Christian Country" :)
Just saw the X-Men tonight. Lots of flash and they blended about 5 storylines from the comic book very well. But somehow it just fell kinda flat. Singer didn’t direct and it showed. Perhaps they were trying to squeeze in too much.
***SPOILER***
I think moving the golden gate bridge was where my suspension of disbelief was lost. Not because Magneto couldn’t do it, he could, but he wouldn’t be so stupid as to leave a access road open at his back.
I also think it was a big mistake for them to take Scott out so early. Hollywood people didn’t get Scott and Jean, but they are one of the eternal couples of comic book dom. Iconic. Just offing him casually like that dropped a great deal of the emotional impact of the movie.
***SPOILER END***
How was your evening?
Re: x-men, well i have had like zero time to see movies, but i noticed that while it did well (as expected) the first week, box office dropped precipitously the next. that usually tells me all that i need to know. since i haven't seen it, i did not know about scott, but i always thought the love triangle was supposed to be more of an "eternal" struggle of a woman with two sides who loved two men. the question was, which of them could love *all* or *both* of her? as usual, hollywood has neatly trimmed all that beautiful mess to a mindless soap.
you can get away with that in romantic comedies, which attract housewives, spinsters, and the incurably lonely; but not, ironically, with comic book fans. (man, i can't believe i just said that) while the cliche of "lonely, basement-dwelling, pervy" comic fan has been amply backed up by about 8 out of 10 comic fans i've ever met, they still are too smart to buy the b.s. the screenwriter mafia spews out.
(screenwriter mafia: of course, i AM totally bitter that while i write scripts my smart friends love, and shorts that all 15 people in the audience liked - sigh - i don't make 4-8 million for a rewrite of a book based on a song about the true story of a woman with a magical dog. or whatever. and they do. assholes.)
anyway, as far as jadeblog goes, are there rules of engagement for comment boards versus message boards? because it seems that our biggest critics have committed the same "sins"...they just added a lot more vitriol.
do you watch tennis? the french open is my annual fave, followed by wimbledon. the open ends today, and watching federer and nadal, i love the fact that federer just can't seem to win this one even as he "laps the field" (McEnroe is a GREAT commentator) at every other event. i hope he doesn't win, not just because he has it a little too good right now, but because it makes him more human if he has this one achilles heel. it's better for the sport if he's the lovable susan lucci that amps the suspense a notch each go-round. i love clay courts and clay court players. they are a special breed, too easily beaten by the factory-made grass champs at most events, but unstoppable on the slippery, messy, slidey clay. it's like dirt track racing: it's all about maintaining power thru the slide. and the players know they're specialists that aren't expected to do much more than act as spoilers for the "champion"...but they take such spiky, perverse pleasure in it anyway. they're fun.
ah, the french. they're abusive bastards, but with such style. i only wish i understood half of the insults they're shouting, even as they look so spiffy and adore these guys. i love the passion.
i want to go to a nascar race for that reason, too, i love it when people forget everything but that blind enthusiasm, but i'm ascawed of drunken rednecks. :) hard to call.
after my tennis rant, i should have mentioned that wimbledon is, as i'm sure you've noticed in the *green* pics of it, a grass court comp. it's just that it's the only grass court i can actually stay awake thru. it's just different, somehow.
i love my muddy little clay court scrappers, but they never make it in wimbledon. :( watching the williams sisters get beat by scrawny russians is my only comfort. don't they know how tired their whole game is? "i'm musclebound, brawny, bullying and odious...you're too afraid to hit back". whatever. everyone's caught on now. if they could play men, it'd be cool. against other women, they just get finessed out of the championship.
i guess this is all why people like sports. it's the same reason i keep my eye on boris said at a road race, and evilly rejoice when johnson gets dumped, and secretly love tony when he's all mean and psycho. it's not just loving the underdog, it's loving underdogs that bite. (even though i'm sooo morally against all that.)
maybe i'm a genuinely awful person, deep inside.
tell no one!
Well, if you go to a cup race, the really obnoxious drunken rednecks are only a small % of the crowd, so I don't think you would have much of a problem.
Just stay out of the infield. ;)
I'm not going to be able to attend any races this year ($ getting slim), but if you ever do decide to come down this way to go to Martinsville or Charlotte or Bristol or some such, let me know and I'll meet you there.
I’m going to check out one of the local tracks this weekend, I’ll let you know how that goes.
I’m afraid I don’t follow tennis. In fact, unless the Patriots make it into the playoffs, I don’t follow anything but NASCAR. I used to follow Hockey a little bit (and I should be now given that the local team is up for the Stanley cup), but I guess I have room for only one sport fanship in my life. But tennis does look like a fun game to watch.
The wonderful thing about being a sports fan period is that you can be as partisan as you wanna be. It’s not like the things that happen on a racetrack have wide reaching implications for the American people, so if I want to say Jimmie Johnson blows, I can say that. Is he a good driver? Yes, but from my couch I don’t have to be utterly fair and impartial.
I like Tony too. Not a fan, but I like him. It’s not that he so much is an *sshole, it’s that he is functioning from his own set of rules and his temper gets frayed when he has to live by someone else’s, like Mike Heltons. I think that is the key that separates him from the Busch’s of the world. He’s not a mere jerk, he just has his own honor system that sometime conflicts with greater societal rules. Tony will respect people on the track so long as they respect him, but if they are being a jerks he’s going to run them down. As much as “Christian values” may run around, the truth is American’s do not handle being messed with patiently or charitably. As much as we all respect the Mark’s and Elliott’s of the world and wish we could be that honorable and nice, we identify with the Tony’s.
Re: The French. Yes, well. They’re French. I got an opportunity to go to Europe au pair one summer and got to see both Paris and Rome. Paris was impressive in a very conscious “Let us be impressive!” sort of way…and then you went to Rome and saw how it’s really done. Honestly, I’ve always found the French people, the ones living outside of Paris, to be quite nice. It’s the Parisians that are the obnoxious ones, even the rest of France wouldn’t mind if the capital suddenly vanished. But even then I didn’t have any problems. They seemed more wary and jaded then mean outright. But then, I was with an 8 year old.
Re: Hollywood and scripts. I got to attend a SAG meet and greet with Hugh Laurie (“House” and “Jeeves and Wooster”) about a year or so back and someone asked him about the scripts that Hollywood produces. He said that it was simply a matter of fear. They want the tried and true because they know it will sell. Hence the reason why there are so many remakes being made in the last couple years like “Bewitched” and “Stepford Wives”, it’s a guaranteed moneymaker. Take a risk on an unproven for,ula…*gasp*
Utterly charming man, BTW, in a non-RSC unpretentious kind of way. Made a room of 150 strangers feel like they were sitting in his living room for a nice chat.
Comic book fans, well there are probably more of them than you might realize. SciFi/Fantasy is just becoming socially acceptable (Thank you Mr. Jackson), it maybe a while yet before all the “Graphic Novel” enthusiasts come out of the closet. I get one of two reactions when I tell a guy I am dating that I used to read comic books either they look at me as though I’ve just announced I’m Catherine the Great or there’s this sudden intake of breath followed by “You did?” And it does matter how mature, handsome or successful they are. Either they read them and remember what it was like to be a kid, or they didn’t and they don’t.
The truth is graphic novel have gotten a lot better in terms of storytelling, and that it due to three now iconic series, IMO, “The Dark Knight Returns”, by Frank Miller which set the new standard of “Dark”, Art Spiegelman's “Maus” which showed that you can cover utterly serious subject matter in a comic book format, and Neil Gaiman’s incredible “Sandman” series, which pushed comic storytelling to it’s imaginative and creative limits. Many people also include Alan Moore’s “The Watchmen” on that list as well, and it was ground breaking, I just couldn’t get into it. No positive characters for me to connect to. It was all anti-heros. Anyway, these opened the door for “Graphic Novels” to be more artsy, or I should say rather they got the offices of the comic book word to open up to stories that didn’t necessarily involve people flying around in skin tight clothes. I don’t read comic book regularly anymore. They split the X-Men into 5 different books and the stories and characters got too neurotic for me to care about them (and they revealed all of Wolvie’s and Magneto’s backgrounds, which killed my interest in their characters. The great thing about “men of mystery” is that they are mysterious. Why mess with it?), but I will still pick up some of the more edgy titles, such as “V for Vendetta” if I hear they are worth a read.
RE: Scott, Jean and Logan. The movies did do a good job of translating that into a more immediate story. Creating that dynamic you describe, which was very cool. In the books of course it was a triangle that evolved over years. Wolvie flirted with Jean to get on Scott’s nerves, same as he would call the professor “Chuck”, and Jean wouldn’t give him the time of day. It wasn’t until the Pheonix saga the audience found out he did have feelings for her, and then it was tragically too late.
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