Going to Hell in a Handcart
The President Just Doesn't Get It
O.K. so last week the president says he “just wants to clarify” Article Three of the Geneva Convention with his torture initiative because supposedly all it says, according to him, is it prohibits “Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;”
Well does it?
Geneva Convention, Article 3
“In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) Taking of hostages;
(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.
An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.
The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.”
Further, in Part II, Article 13 it says:
“Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.
Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.
Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.”
And then there is...
"PART III
CAPTIVITY
SECTION I
BEGINNING OF CAPTIVITY
Article 17
Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information. If he wilfully infringes this rule, he may render himself liable to a restriction of the privileges accorded to his rank or status.
Each Party to a conflict is required to furnish the persons under its jurisdiction who are liable to become prisoners of war, with an identity card showing the owner's surname, first names, rank, army, regimental, personal or serial number or equivalent information, and date of birth. The identity card may, furthermore, bear the signature or the fingerprints, or both, of the owner, and may bear, as well, any other information the Party to the conflict may wish to add concerning persons belonging to its armed forces. As far as possible the card shall measure 6.5 x 10 cm. and shall be issued in duplicate. The identity card shall be shown by the prisoner of war upon demand, but may in no case be taken away from him.
No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.
Prisoners of war who, owing to their physical or mental condition, are unable to state their identity, shall be handed over to the medical service. The identity of such prisoners shall be established by all possible means, subject to the provisions of the preceding paragraph.
The questioning of prisoners of war shall be carried out in a language which they understand."
Now for those of you, like our president, who need to have the definition of “torture” spelled out for them, here is it definition based on a simply Google search.
“Definitions of torture on the Web:
•anguish: extreme mental distress
•unbearable physical pain
•agony: intense feelings of suffering; acute mental or physical pain; "an agony of doubt"; "the torments of the damned"
•torment: torment emotionally or mentally
•distortion: the act of distorting something so it seems to mean something it was not intended to mean
•subject to torture; "The sinners will be tormented in Hell, according to the Bible"
•the deliberate, systematic, or wanton infliction of physical or mental suffering by one or more persons in an attempt to force another person to yield information or to make a confession or for any other reason; "it required unnatural torturing to extract a confession"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
•Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterrent or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture
•A form of play that involves intense sensation. This is not necessarily pain. It is usually directed towards a single part of the body. Teasing, which is starting then stopping a particular attention, may be considered torture
www.grimesgrafix.com/welts/glossary.html
•severe mental anguish or physical pain
encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861720977/torment.html
Somehow, I think waterboarding counts.
Unless you're into that sort of ..."play".
You get it, I get it, but our Harvard and Yale educated President seems to have a problem understanding this. He also seems to have a problem differentiating “torture” and “interrogation”, something stemming from watching Rambo movies and “24” too much.
In fact, I have to wonder if that’s where the President gets his ideas about the state of the world: Jack Bauer.
Police Departments all over this nation conduct “interrogations” every single day, they do not conduct torture. And yet they seem to enjoy a much higher success rate than their CIA counterparts.
Hm.
The argument has been made that these are a different kind of criminal, willing to go to all sorts of ends to further their goals of killing Americans (The President really loves bring that phrase up “They’re out to KIIIIIILL YOOOOU ALLLLL!”). I’m sure suspects up for Murder 1 in Death Penalty states have a pretty high imperative to keep their secrets as well, and yet…
Yes, it may be harder to crack these people with the mental approach, but given that fact that multiple sources that have experience with torture have stated that it yields highly unreliable results, maybe it’s time to let some NYPD police officers have a crack that prisoners.
Or maybe, hey, they just don’t know anything and we’re just doing this to be dickheads and spread fear...like Hussien did.
In the meantime…
Domestic Eavesdropping Bills passed Senate Panel
SB2453, the National Security Surveillance Act basically repeals the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and allow the Attorney General (y’know, the guy who likes torture) to spy on, including searches, whomever he wishes at his whim for as long as he wants.
Seems pretty up front and fucked up.
This does not mean it’s law yet, but it does mean it’s time to start writing your representatives:
Senate
Congress
BTW- Here’s an article from Time outlining the Bush Terrorism bills and the countering proposed legislation.
What seems to be more confusing is that there is a third bill out there, co sponsored by Specter, which just got past the Senate Judiciary Committee. This one doesn’t sound too bad to me.
For Kicks
While we are waiting to see if and how badly our Constitutional rights are about to be trampled, find out how much you know about that “piece of paper” with this little quiz.
I got five. *smug little dance*
Islamic Riots Over Pope's Comments
Dudes....
Thank the Gods for Indonesia.
"Muslim scholars here have praised Pope Benedict XVI's apology for his offensive remarks on Islam, and reiterated Tuesday an appeal to Muslims to let go of their anger."
What sad is that ten years ago, the most this would have garnered is an angry letter from a bunch of Islamic clerics and academics. It's just shows how exacerbated everything is now.
O.K. so last week the president says he “just wants to clarify” Article Three of the Geneva Convention with his torture initiative because supposedly all it says, according to him, is it prohibits “Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;”
Well does it?
Geneva Convention, Article 3
“In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) Taking of hostages;
(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.
An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.
The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.”
Further, in Part II, Article 13 it says:
“Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.
Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.
Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.”
And then there is...
"PART III
CAPTIVITY
SECTION I
BEGINNING OF CAPTIVITY
Article 17
Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information. If he wilfully infringes this rule, he may render himself liable to a restriction of the privileges accorded to his rank or status.
Each Party to a conflict is required to furnish the persons under its jurisdiction who are liable to become prisoners of war, with an identity card showing the owner's surname, first names, rank, army, regimental, personal or serial number or equivalent information, and date of birth. The identity card may, furthermore, bear the signature or the fingerprints, or both, of the owner, and may bear, as well, any other information the Party to the conflict may wish to add concerning persons belonging to its armed forces. As far as possible the card shall measure 6.5 x 10 cm. and shall be issued in duplicate. The identity card shall be shown by the prisoner of war upon demand, but may in no case be taken away from him.
No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.
Prisoners of war who, owing to their physical or mental condition, are unable to state their identity, shall be handed over to the medical service. The identity of such prisoners shall be established by all possible means, subject to the provisions of the preceding paragraph.
The questioning of prisoners of war shall be carried out in a language which they understand."
Now for those of you, like our president, who need to have the definition of “torture” spelled out for them, here is it definition based on a simply Google search.
“Definitions of torture on the Web:
•anguish: extreme mental distress
•unbearable physical pain
•agony: intense feelings of suffering; acute mental or physical pain; "an agony of doubt"; "the torments of the damned"
•torment: torment emotionally or mentally
•distortion: the act of distorting something so it seems to mean something it was not intended to mean
•subject to torture; "The sinners will be tormented in Hell, according to the Bible"
•the deliberate, systematic, or wanton infliction of physical or mental suffering by one or more persons in an attempt to force another person to yield information or to make a confession or for any other reason; "it required unnatural torturing to extract a confession"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
•Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterrent or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture
•A form of play that involves intense sensation. This is not necessarily pain. It is usually directed towards a single part of the body. Teasing, which is starting then stopping a particular attention, may be considered torture
www.grimesgrafix.com/welts/glossary.html
•severe mental anguish or physical pain
encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861720977/torment.html
Somehow, I think waterboarding counts.
Unless you're into that sort of ..."play".
You get it, I get it, but our Harvard and Yale educated President seems to have a problem understanding this. He also seems to have a problem differentiating “torture” and “interrogation”, something stemming from watching Rambo movies and “24” too much.
In fact, I have to wonder if that’s where the President gets his ideas about the state of the world: Jack Bauer.
Police Departments all over this nation conduct “interrogations” every single day, they do not conduct torture. And yet they seem to enjoy a much higher success rate than their CIA counterparts.
Hm.
The argument has been made that these are a different kind of criminal, willing to go to all sorts of ends to further their goals of killing Americans (The President really loves bring that phrase up “They’re out to KIIIIIILL YOOOOU ALLLLL!”). I’m sure suspects up for Murder 1 in Death Penalty states have a pretty high imperative to keep their secrets as well, and yet…
Yes, it may be harder to crack these people with the mental approach, but given that fact that multiple sources that have experience with torture have stated that it yields highly unreliable results, maybe it’s time to let some NYPD police officers have a crack that prisoners.
Or maybe, hey, they just don’t know anything and we’re just doing this to be dickheads and spread fear...like Hussien did.
In the meantime…
Domestic Eavesdropping Bills passed Senate Panel
SB2453, the National Security Surveillance Act basically repeals the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and allow the Attorney General (y’know, the guy who likes torture) to spy on, including searches, whomever he wishes at his whim for as long as he wants.
Seems pretty up front and fucked up.
This does not mean it’s law yet, but it does mean it’s time to start writing your representatives:
Senate
Congress
BTW- Here’s an article from Time outlining the Bush Terrorism bills and the countering proposed legislation.
What seems to be more confusing is that there is a third bill out there, co sponsored by Specter, which just got past the Senate Judiciary Committee. This one doesn’t sound too bad to me.
For Kicks
While we are waiting to see if and how badly our Constitutional rights are about to be trampled, find out how much you know about that “piece of paper” with this little quiz.
I got five. *smug little dance*
Islamic Riots Over Pope's Comments
Dudes....
Thank the Gods for Indonesia.
"Muslim scholars here have praised Pope Benedict XVI's apology for his offensive remarks on Islam, and reiterated Tuesday an appeal to Muslims to let go of their anger."
What sad is that ten years ago, the most this would have garnered is an angry letter from a bunch of Islamic clerics and academics. It's just shows how exacerbated everything is now.
posted by KiplingKat | 8:12 AM
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